Comment

Comment by Duane Engdahl on July 19, 2009 at 7:32am

One more thought for you all on this topic. If you have been putting with a mis-shafted putter for a long time you probably don't even notice the shaft vibration because you have become used to it. Here is how to tell if you are suffering shaft vibration whether you can feel it or not - Put the putter shaft between the palms of your hands at about the balance point a few inches up from the head and then move your palms back and forth so as to rotate the shaft (as a pool shooter would do to test the straightness of a pool cue); then if the putter wobbles during this test the shafting is not right and suffering shaft vibration whether you can feel it or not.

Comment by Duane Engdahl on July 17, 2009 at 1:24pm

Okay, I think we have come to the end of this "shaft vibration" thread. So unless you are not done yet, I am ready to move on to another technology topic. But before we leave this topic, let's summarize: Shaft vibration is bad and it comes as a result of mis-placement of the shaft into the head and mis-alignment of the shaft. So if you want no shaft vibration, then your putter needs to be such that the shaft is perfectly straight and vectors directly into the center of mass of the putter head. Maybe you should look at www.quantumputters.com.

Comment by Duane Engdahl on July 17, 2009 at 12:19pm

Thanks Christian! I am no golfing genius either - I just enjoy playing golf in my mind especially here in Phoenix in the summertime when it is too hot to be outside. One of your guesses is right and that is "shaft placement"; and that along with "shaft alignment" are the two factors in putter shaft vibration. Your other guesses have have nothing to do with shaft vibration at all. Let me explain: If you asked a physicist to describe a putting stroke he might say, "A massive head is propelled by a power vector moving in an arc such that a ball resting at the bottom of this arc is impacted by the head resulting in the ball being propelled by force applied to it by the mass of the head and the velocity of the power vector." Implied in this statement is that the mathematical power vector is straight line and that this line intersects with the head's center of mass. Now in the real world, if the putters shaft is straight and it intersects with the head's center of mass then all of the force will be applied to the ball and there will be no shaft vibration. However if the putter's shaft is bent or broken (as in the Anser style), or if the shaft does not intersect with the head's center of mass, then the putter's shaft will try to become the mathematically perfect shape which of course it will physically be prevented from doing, but it will keep trying until it gets tired - that is shaft vibration.

Comment by Duane Engdahl on July 17, 2009 at 11:31am

Thanks Rick for your good work regarding putter weight. The Quantum Putter has a heavy head (Model XXX Mallet at 569 gm; XX Middy at 427 gm, and X Blade at 313 gm and with power adjustment weights, that adds another 86 gm to each). The Quantum Putter so far does not add weight to the shaft (currently a 35" shaft with grip and hosel weighs 228 gm), but if somebody can show me the benefit of adding mass to the shaft, I would be open to doing so. You are right that reverberation has a very short dwell time and so is not usually noticeable unless you are looking for it, but no that you have become aware of it you will notice it especially with your Zen Putter which has a soft impact pad. The shaft vibration you are feeling with your Zen comes from heel shafting which has the effect of making every impact a mis-hit because a heel shafted putter has no sweet spot; secondly, your Zen putter has a bent shaft which makes the actual shaft out of alignment with the virtual power vector and that mis-alignment will vibrate upon every impact. A straight shafted putter with the shaft vectoring precisely into the center of gravity of the head, will have no impact vibration; and if the putter head has no soft impact pad, then it will have no reverberation either.
. .

Comment by Rick Malm on July 17, 2009 at 7:38am

I have been trying different club weights by increasing from about 300gr to 850gr with both internal shaft and added head weight.
Clearly the increase mass makes a big change in feel
and with the heavy head mass, I feel not reverberation but I can feel
the impact but any reverberation has a very short time constant. Of course one can feel the torque from off center hits. (toe or heel) more with the light weight head. With weight placed high
in the shaft and a light weight head with impact pad (Zen Putter) I feel the vibration even at at 630gr total club weight. The Zen putter head is pretty light and it has a soft impact pad insert.

Comment by Duane Engdahl on July 17, 2009 at 7:02am

Jerry, you have it right that when two objects impact (ball and head) there will always be impact reverberation on both objects but most of the reverberation will be on the softer less massive object (ball) and only a negligible amount will be on the harder more massive object (head). Makes you wonder why any putter maker would want to make his putter head softer with soft impact pad, doesn't it? So unless you have a soft impact pad on your putter head, the ball should get almost all the impact reverberation (which of course you won't feel) and the putter head should get almost none. So while you are right that impact does cause a reverberation on both objects, it is not the cause of shaft vibration unless the putter has a soft impact pad.

Comment by Jerry Pinotti on July 16, 2009 at 6:51pm

I hope I don't sound like a fool....but here I go. Shaft vibration would be the result of the ball hitting the clubface. It will allways have some vibration....right? (there is a vibration when any two pieces of matter collide) It seems to be minimized by using the center of the hitting area of the clubface, although I'm probably combining clubhead twisting into this. Don't we use this as a measure of responce or feel?

Comment by Albert Rango on July 16, 2009 at 4:08pm

I have always used center shafted putters so maybe they have a minimum of shaft vibration and was just lucky in my selection.

Comment by Christian Tvedt on July 16, 2009 at 3:06pm

I'm no golfing genious, but vibrations can come from different sources, from mishits, shaft and head weight distribution, ball quality.. Minimized? Well i'm just guessing actually, head weight could be one, larger sweetspot another... and shaft placement...
But like i said, i'm almost only guessing :-)

Comment by Duane Engdahl on July 16, 2009 at 2:42pm

Thanks Al for the comment, but you use a Q putter so you are never bothered with any shaft vibration anyway. Can you remember the putter you were using before your Q Putter and then can you recall how nice it felt not have that annoying vibration after you switched to your Q Putter? Okay, I agree it is not the most importan thing in putting precision; instead it is just an annoyance, but being annoyed when you are putting cannot help putting performance. I will take one more response on this topic and then I'll tell you all what causes shaft vibration.

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